simgt 2 days ago
I'm in-between two minds. On one end £9 of labour cost for a plate of asparagus seems deeply inefficient and unrealistic, particularly when the cost of ingredients that also include (hard) labour is £2. On the other, just a century ago being served quality food in a nicely decorated place was exclusively the privilege of aristocrats.
meheleventyone 2 days ago
> On one end £9 of labour cost for a plate of asparagus seems deeply inefficient and unrealistic, particularly when the cost of ingredients that also include (hard) labour is £2.

Presumably the staffing cost is the front of house staff as well as the actual cooking and then the cost of employing someone to wash dishes, clean the restraunt and so on. Then compared to growing asparagus which seems to largely come from countries with substantially lower wages. Restraunts have always been infamously low margin businesses though.

pseudohadamard 9 hours ago
I just see it as conspicuous consumption. If you want to pay 200 Zorkmids for someone to wash some oograh in duck's tears and then marinate it in bird's milk before cooking it over a wood fire made with Mongolian teak flown in fresh that morning then good for you, but are you really getting a better meal than the 10 Zorkmid plate from my local favourite restaurant or just setting fire to a pile of money to prove you can afford fancier wank than your neighbour?
6510 2 days ago
I see some interviews where asparagus farmers explained that the market forces them to sell at a loss. It is apparently an uniquely complicated crop.

They talk about price per kg but I see 4 on the plate? 12 to 20 gram each. 48 to 80 grams total. 21 to 12.5 portions in a kg. £15 to £20 per 1000g

   15/21   = 0.714
   15/12.5 = 1.20
   20/21   = 0.95
   20/12.5 = 1.60
> chop off their woody ends to lacto-ferment, so we can use them elsewhere

Then you cant even say it costs 1.60 in ingredients per plate. It might even be that it costs 72 cents and that the customer gets only 60 cents worth of vegetables.

> asparagus can actually be more expensive than some proteins

It's not actually the asparagus but the preparation that costs money.

> Overall, the ingredients for this dish are around £3, but the labour, energy and everything else comes to £56

Say 60 which is 100 times 60 cents or 3-4 kg.

The hidden cost is real estate for both the restaurant and the employees. They have few seats and the usual menu has a lot of different things.

If say the city would buy the surrounding buildings (which is a good investment) and provided say 2000 to 7000 seats for free (we've already paid taxes) then reduce the menu to 3-4 meals that you pick up yourself at the counter people could eat there for next to nothing (which would be good for the economy)

It wouldn't be the same experience of course.

cma 2 days ago
A century ago was 1926.
simgt 2 days ago
Yes
dungdevourer 2 days ago
bro really thinks restaurants invented after ww2 lmao
simgt 8 hours ago
Maybe learn to read comments. Less than a third of the population had running water at home in countries like France before WW2. In 1960 a quarter had a fridge. But sure, commoners had access to the kind of place described in the article in 1926. Get a grip.
haritha-j 2 days ago
As a broke PhD student, my conclusion was that I just need to cook more. As pointed out in the article, the ingredients cost a small fraction of the price of the dish. Yes, its a bit time consuming but its also interesting to make different dishes, and many things like lasagna or biriyani can be batch cooked. There's a lot of really interesting dishes that don't take a whole lot of time per portion.
DangitBobby 2 days ago
If you like Indian food, you can make absolutely gigantic batches of curry in the instant pot for low effort (stove top also viable requires a bit more attention), then freeze or refrigerate the curry and serve it with rice or protein of choice at your leisure. Awesome for college students because you can make not-quite restaurant quality food with very limited kitchen supplies.
6510 2 days ago
I would argue that if building one thing is cheaper per unit than building 100 there is something fishy going on. You aren't even good at cooking!
collingreen 2 days ago
If the restaurant made only one dish and employed a skeleton crew reheating it from frozen because it was made in enormous batches then yeah they might be able to reduce the cost so far below you doing it at home that they can pay the other restaurant overhead and still come out on top. That's a lot different than running a full service restaurant though.
broken-kebab 2 days ago
Manual labor may as easy be more expensive at scale, not cheaper. Then if you really read the article there are tax/regulatory expenses which you are spared of as an individual.
6510 5 hours ago
You are suppose to collect tax and use it to improve and stabilize quality of life. Here it is used to punish people for trying to feed themselves, used to squeeze restaurants out of existence and used to punish social life. The vat alone is twice what the restaurant makes and it requires keeping track of everything to calculate it. You cant sell me on the idea this benefits the economy.
broken-kebab 2 hours ago
>You cant sell me on the idea this benefits the economy.

But I don't say anything like that. Surely, the UK (and many other countries) both overtaxing, and overregulating restaurants to the point they have either to cut every corner to detriment of visitors experience or find a place in some expensive niche.

rjh29 2 days ago
Very much a UK problem. Almost 10 quid of labour to cook a simple asparagus dish? VAT exceeds price of ingredients. This is why going out to eat is a huge luxury here.

Meanwhile in Asia you can get cooked meals for less than a dollar from a hawker stand or eat a beef bowl or ramen for like 5 dollars in Japan. Why is that?

manarth 2 days ago
The comparison isn't like-for-like: the article is describing sit-down restaurants where diners are likely to spend an hour or more in the restaurant.

A $5 ramen from a chain restaurant in Japan might be viewed as the equivalent of a UK McDonalds meal deal at £5.50 (UK prices generally translate 1 USD into 1 GBP, so it is more expensive in the UK, primarily accounted for by taxes).

rjh29 2 days ago
You can go to plenty of chains in Japan where you can spend an hour, you'll still spend half of what you pay in the UK.

McDonalds too, a Big Mac meal is £7.99, it is £3.60 in Japan.

BobaFloutist 17 hours ago
Sure, but you're not scaling that to median income. Exchange rate only tells you half the story.
krustyvonklown 2 days ago
Does the stand rent a cherry picker to clean their chimney? It may seem absurd, but it is probably fair that a restaurant has to take steps with it's externalities, and only absurd in the context of all the interest groups that don't have to take similar steps. Personally, I would suspect my health was damaged by living directly above restaurants in either of two places with terrible attention to air quality risk.
bomewish 2 days ago
Seriously ? These are not sympathetic! The first seems like a whole lot of pointless faff for nothing much at all — who needs an emulsion made out of salvaged organic chickpea bubbles — and the second complains about not being allowed to raise prices… yet she can! It’s just that you’d get fewer customers.

Also - this is presumably profit after all the wages are taken out including for owners of the place? If so it kinda depends on what their wages are to know if this whole situation seems super unfair.

DangitBobby 2 days ago
Who needs aquafaba? Vegans and vegetarians do. It's an emulsifier and often takes the place of eggs and other animal derived products in a dish. It's not expensive, you get it for free when you cook with chickpeas.
comrade1234 2 days ago
I thought this was going to be about the actual dish-ware, not food.

I remember one of the few newer fancy/expensive restaurants in San Francisco that survived the 2000 dot-com crash did so in part by dropping their custom-made (along with their restaurant logo) dishes/glasses for normal plain dish-ware.

(They also simplified their menu - still very good, just a bit less exotic)

armchairhacker 2 days ago
Lately I’ve been finding most restaurant dishes “low quality”: in particular, less meat and tastes overcooked compared to what I make at home, though grains and vegetables are also blander.

I suspect this is more me being a harsher critic than restaurants enshittifying. I’ve been improving my cooking. I do get premium ingredients, that sometimes cost much more than the cheapest alternative, but still always much less than even low-end restaurants.

So my conclusion is, if you like good food you should cook yourself. Maybe if you’re rich enough to always eat at especially expensive restaurants, but even then I think you’d prefer a private chef.

meheleventyone 2 days ago
If you like food you should do both! There are plenty of things it's hard to cook at home or impractical to keep all the different things you need. A good example is ironically a really simple food. Pizza needs temperatures most domestic ovens aren't nearly hot enough to provide in order to make a quality result.

Restaurants also provide an opportunity to eat foods you've never experienced before which really helps cooking similar things at home as you have some idea of what the end result should be like. And the beauty is that this often doesn't have to be expensive to be good.

It's like any creative hobby you need to develop both craft and taste.

manarth 2 days ago

    > "Pizza needs temperatures most domestic ovens aren't nearly hot enough to provide"
This is where the hobby-cook market has started to be addressed; e.g. Ooni Pizza Ovens aren't cheap, but they also aren't a suitable commercial oven, so very much aimed at the home hobbyist/enthusiast.
meheleventyone 5 hours ago
Yeah I got given one by work and we make fresh sourdough pizza every Friday now. Absolutely great if you have the space for it.
armchairhacker 2 days ago
You’re right on both points.

I’d say restaurants are great occasionally. It’s generally bad to go more than occasionally.

I don’t get why there are so many though, especially generic ones.

pards 2 days ago
> I’ve been finding most restaurant dishes “low quality”

Many restaurants use pre-made components like sauces bought from restaurant wholesalers which explains a lot of the sameness across establishments.

Hollandaise from a bag? No thanks.

Eddy_Viscosity2 2 days ago
Restaurants are enshittifying, in the US this is largely the Sysco effect where more dishes come pre-prepared to the restaurant from mass production lines. They range from bad to peak mediocrity.
armchairhacker 2 days ago
In Europe?
Eddy_Viscosity2 2 days ago
I don't know if Europe is seeing similar.
jareklupinski 2 days ago
my theory is that restaurants used to just close when the owner / chef / patrons ran out of steam to keep an excellent place afloat

it seems to be more popular now to buy a struggling business that seemed highend, give it a new coat of paint, swap the menu for something from a university cafeteria, and keep it making money for a couple decades

because that was the point... i guess...

6510 2 days ago
The point is to get nutrients into the labor force.
jareklupinski 2 days ago
Labor Force sounds cooler capitalized like Justice League or The Avengers
6510 2 days ago
The goal is to transform the asparagus into the bug tracker.
jareklupinski 24 hours ago
this fertilizer to ticket pipeline is alive and well
6510 6 hours ago
It looks like a complete chaos to the point I'm starting to feel sorry for the vegetable. Its entire existence depends on there being enough bugs to buy the fertilizer.

https://www.gurneys.com/products/asparagus-alive-fertilizer

yoshyosh 2 days ago
dishes and costs in asia and different venues would be solid here
simianwords 2 days ago
In the other thread about doorman fallacy, lots of folks were signalling that they do actually like waiters and other labour.

This post puts the price to pay for the luxury in perspective