https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/smallpox-inoculation-revolu...
> During the 1700s, smallpox raged through the American colonies and the Continental Army. Smallpox impacted the Continental Army severely during the Revolutionary War, so much so that George Washington mandated inoculation for all Continental soldiers in 1777. Just fifty-six years earlier, in 1721, Bostonian doctors and clergy introduced the procedure to the American colonies. Without the vision and determination of these early Bostonians in normalizing inoculation, Washington may not have made the decision to mandate inoculation for the Continental Army. Though it was a controversial action, many historians credit the medical mandate with the colonists’ victory in the Revolutionary War and the creation of the United States of America.
https://www.mountvernon.org/education/primary-source-collect...
> HEAD QUARTERS MORRIS TOWN 12TH MARCH 1777
> Sir
> You are hereby required immediately to send me an exact return of your regiment, and to send all your recruits, who have had the small pox to join the Army. Those, who have not, are to be sent to Philadelphia, and put under the direction of the commanding officer there, who will have them inoculated.
Apparently, there was a dysentery outbreak. They didn’t retreat, because they couldn’t. Maybe that was the thinking behind this edict.
easy to volunteer when you're a hoodrat or hillbilly and it's the only way out of your situation.
but that's just the way in. Problem is you're on the hook for 4+ years and you can't just quit. I've definitely had white collar jobs I got to, realized it was fuckin miserable, and noped out in < 2 years. Cuz, like, I can just quit.
you end up in a shitty unit with a shitty boss, you get to eat shit for ~4 years, and will go to jail if you fuckup or disappear.
put another way, there is some statistic like 25% of military recruits who get kicked out get kicked out in the first year; it wasn't what they thought it'd be
I have habit of watching historical YouTube videos and so many times battles were lost or sieges were broken because one side got sick and could not keep fighting.
Only an ignorant who never studied history would voluntarily remove vaccination from army units.
Your friend knows his history; disease has been the leading cause of death in warfare, historically, killing more soldiers than actual combat.
However, we did receive a lot of training in how to avoid and treat it, along with better equipment. Does that count as a “vaccine”?
> No, because trench foot is something not treatable by vaccines.
Isn’t that tautological?
History and the future are full of things that can be treated with a vaccine that were not previously.
Vaccines fundamentally impact viruses. Trench foot is not caused by a virus, or any infection. It’s more akin to frostbite.
We’re really pushing the boundaries of what we can do with vaccines, but the root cause of trench foot is poor circulation, and a vaccine can’t really fix that.
[1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.118....
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Democracy dies when stupid people become convinced that they know best and have all the answers.
Democracy works exactly because of this?
We just poll all the people, including the dumb ones, and then average out the answers. The dumbs all cancel out in the end. (Yes, of course, I know it is a lot more complex than this)
The whole point of democracy is that we don't know what is the dumb or smart answer so we have these complex functions and dances to squeeze out the best one we can think of at the time. (Yes, I know that the reasons for states to turn democratic are complex)
Not if the Republicans had their way:
To the degree that democracy works, it works as you say. But we systematically fail to include all of the people, so the dumbs often don't cancel out.
Or the rules are written to avoid that, in which case the power rests with the minority who is happiest with the status quo.
It works only if most people don't want to push their advantages to the limits. But if men were angels, there would be no need of laws. The system will always fall prey to whoever is most willing to push their advantage as far as it will go.
Both decisions? Or just the walkback one?
Yes, that world is one based more on reality and common sense rather than politics and rhetoric.
Unfortunately, this does not describe the world we are currently trapped in.
There's always a tension between growing the pie or taking more of the pie for yourself. If growth appears to be slowing and there's a lot of pie to fight over, more and more people will focus on the latter. Sometimes that's healthy, but without external pressure it usually takes the form of corruption, pettiness, and other destructive behaviors.
Readiness - a matter of national security - tends to trump most concerns that, in civilian populations, might warrant greater choice and debate.
Almost like it was politically-motivated and it's not truthfully a "matter of national security"
https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...
It's reality as it appears to be to a person on the outside. Not actual reality.
The American reality of stepping on rake after rake after rake. A gag that meanders repeatedly between funny and sad.
The simple fact is that we’re dealing with idiots and pure stupidity. Idiots elected them and the idiots are having their day in the sun. Unfortunately, their stupidity is no longer contained to the office environments and executive leadership roles they had before. They are unfortunately able to make decisions that affect the general population.
The US did an okay-ish job for a long time keeping people like this from gaining a foothold of too many positions of power. Unfortunately, we lost control and we may never get it back on the right track.
Princeton and Harvard are graduating idiots?
We can start with whomever showed up to that inauguration, and expand from there. If they could afford that bribe, they can certainly afford to pay for repairing the damage their golden boy has caused.
But just cutting taxes for the rich is not that model.
Hopefully sanity prevails and we retroactively declare those tax cuts as loans, now due with interest. Yeah, not how contracts are supposed to work. So what.
Vaccines should not be given automatically, because that causes people to not think about why they need it. They think that it is something is imposed on them. But if they always have to request it (and the request is quick and always given, or super cheap at the shop) then people would have to know to get vaccinated. Parents will talk to each other about which vaccine is necessary (and its going to be all of them because they will know someone that died from it)
This is true for any crisis really. For example, lets say that you are managing someone's finances or health, you found out that they are in a horrible situation. But then, you discovered a solution that does not require their attention. So you work tirelessly behind the scene to fix their finances or develop new cure. Voila! Problem solved. Or is it? You have not fixed the fundamental problem that they are an obese with obese lifestyle.
The personal responsibility model of obesity works for individuals (including myself), but falls flat when discussing how to lower the weight of millions.
Try to assume your choices instead of blaming "the US government" and telling yourself fairytales.
Markets don't exist in a vacuum. In this case, it was substantially shaped by state-driven incentives. If nothing had changed, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a historical fact that something did change: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States#/....
Replace “you” with “we will do x to you whether you like it or not” and now we’re talking
Throughout history, human civilisations have tried to deal with problems (e.g. droughts, floods, famines etc) by proactively taking measures to increase their chance of survival. Simple things like storing grain to be used during the winter is an effective strategy, whereas letting people starve to death so that they can learn about storing grain seems like a really stupid idea for stupid people.
The reasons for not doing the vaccine anymore were, essentially, "the vaccine is more dangerous than the sickness" and "the vaccine is not necessary to avoid the sickness".
Both of those statement are, factually, scientifically, not true. That's reality. Which is what parent meant, no matter the deep conviction and the political innuendo, ultimately reality is you either do the vaccine and are safe for no risk or you don't and you get infection waves.
It also makes a stupidly-obvious tactic viable for the enemy.
There is also the legend of sieging cities by catapulting diseased cows over the city walls. And if anyone knows the citation for that story, I'd love to see it.
Smallpox is a can of worms. But if you learn your enemy are idiots and don't have a flu vaccine, and you know your own forces do, I don't think you're going to get yourself sanctioned by your trade partners for exposing them to the flu. It will take out a statistically-measurable fraction of their troops, at a predictable interval, something you can plan to exploit with manoeuvre.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#...
See: viruses and the efficacy of vaccines thereupon.
So which ones are still exempt from the vaccines? Space Force, USMC, Coast Guard, who else?
Uniformed Health Service (the reason the Surgeon General is a General), which I'm certain is vaccinated.
NOAA also has uniformed personnel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformed_services_of_the_Unit...
Sounds like we have a leadership issue.
The 1918 "Spanish flu" was cultivated in the trenches and spread through military camps and demobilization.
Hesgeth should be removed from his position ASAP.
Edit:
>Around 60% of previously unvaccinated trainees at Lackland initially declined the flu shot during the vaccine requirement’s lapse, according to the defense official.
https://edition.cnn.com/2026/06/24/politics/flu-shot-outbrea...
Forget about Hesgeth. The USA is completely effed up.
While also lying about taking Tylenol during pregnancy causing autism. They've done more studies since that misinformation to prove once again there's no connection.
RFK should be removed along with the POTUS who put him there.
The (tear) gas chamber was a blessing in disguise, because it caused everyone to expel every dram of mucus that’d been stuck in our lungs. It was the first time I could breathe freely through my nose in a month.
2 million dead Americans later and people still complain that they were asked to get a vaccine to try to save lives. or complain about a shutdown which should have lasted a few months max if people had done what they were supposed to and would have saved millions of lives.
I think you are largely right, but I dont think they have any obligation to save anyone else's life.
I think there would have been better uptake amung republicans if it was presented a optional healthcare choice or suggestion.
That’s the problem with republicans. They reject basic tenets of a society.
You do have a responsibility to do the absolute minimum to not harm other people.
Any accommodation beyond that is them doing a favor, not an obligation.
This is why they get so reactionary when compelled.
Cut to Republicans outraged reaction to Michelle Obama fitness initiatives...
I reject this framing, the person here is not a passive observer in the first place, they are a participant with obligations.
Consider a pet dog: You aren't merely responsible if it bites someone after-the-fact, you also have a proactive obligation for a reasonable level of control and monitoring, so that your erratic property doesn't harm another person in the first place. That might mean blocking off where it can go with doors and fences, a muzzle, a leash in public, certified obedience training, etc.
Your body is like that dog: Both are biological property which can erratically move to harm others without your permission. In this case, the risk is it will start spewing tiny bioweapons at other people. As the owner, you again have some obligation to exert reasonable control and supervision over your property, whether that's quarantine, vaccines, masks, home tests, etc.
____
On the heels of the "if Ebola" thought-experiment, let's try another: Imagine we somehow had forensic knowledge of how every individual SARS-COV-2 victim got sick and exactly how plus a frictionless legal system for lawsuits to recover damages from lost-work, medical bills, or deaths.
Simply by having awareness and justice, a lot of people would be singing a very different tune. If Mr. "I'm too cool for masks" infects several strangers and causes them to miss days of wages, it'll actually show up as a $5,000 bill.
This is why they get so reactionary when compelled.
I think your liability example illustrates this. They wouldn't argue that the other person knew and accepted the risks when hanging out with Mr Cool and want that to be the social expectation.
Sadly, no. There is a theory that Ebola cases are really just arsenic poisoning from the mines in the area. That’s the kind of narrative that would take hold realistically.
I would also point out that prior to Bidens election it was mostly Democrats who were saying they weren’t going to take the vaccine when it came out, that it would be rushed and have something wrong with it.
Sadly, no. I live in one of the bluest corners of the US. A constant discussion was when the jab would come available so that we could get it. I knew no one who didn't want it.
Nope, look at Figure 10 in this poll [0]. Asked about a hypothetical vaccine in the next ~2 months before the election was held, the answer "Yes, would want to get vaccinated" was 50% for Democrats and only 36% for Republicans.
Democrats may have become more confident after the election--for damn good reasons--but there was no flip or reversal.
[0] https://www.kff.org/health-information-trust/kff-health-trac...
“85% of Democrats say they are worried the FDA will rush to approve a vaccine, while fewer Republicans (35%) express this level of concern. Notably, women are more likely than men to say they are worried the FDA will rush to approve a vaccine (70% vs. 55%).”
They responded to evidence by changing the way they view the world. Like you are supposed to.
Meanwhile, Republicans while Trump was in the whitehouse were not very concerned that the vaccine would be rushed or unsafe, and as soon as Biden is in the whitehouse instead, are suddenly terrified of the vaccine.
Suppose you're right. They're still entitled to their views, they're entitled to honesty from their government, and frankly I'd say the government should not be trying to coerce people into taking an officially-experimental vaccine by the back door any more than they should be directly forcing people to do so.
> 2 million dead Americans later
Maybe. Depends very much on who's doing the calculations.
> complain about a shutdown which should have lasted a few months max if people had done what they were supposed to
Bullshit. Countries with much higher social compliance saw the same endless lockdowns.
Two things.
1) mRNA technology was not experimental
2) I don't know about you but I got my shot in the shoulder, not the back door
Perhaps, but the specific vaccines were.
> 2) I don't know about you but I got my shot in the shoulder, not the back door
As I'm sure you understood, I was talking about coercion by the back door - the whole "we're not going to force individuals to vaccinate, but we're going to force restaurants and gyms to require vaccination" approach. (And don't try to say it was an objective public health measure - if that was the case they would've made natural immunity as acceptable as vaccination)
It was an objective public health measure, because it is well-known from actual examples that opening such option would lead people to try to get infected instead of being vaccinated, breeding even more variants and hospital saturation.
Note also that "previous contamination" has never been an acceptable derogation in any public health system for any of the compulsory vaccinations.
Bullshit.
> Note also that "previous contamination" has never been an acceptable derogation in any public health system for any of the compulsory vaccinations.
Nonsense. Literally the first example I looked up was the CDC's measles vaccination advice https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/vaccine-considerations/index... : laboratory confirmation of immunity or of the disease is considered presumptive evidence of immunity in exactly the same way that a vaccination record is.
"NEW YORK (AP) — A study on COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness has finally been published after being blocked from a government health journal.
The vaccine was found to be about 55% effective against COVID-19-associated hospitalizations, and reduced COVID-19-related trips to emergency departments and urgent care clinics by 50%, according to the study published Tuesday by JAMA Network Open."
https://apnews.com/article/cdc-covid-vaccine-effective-study...
There's a double layer of irony here, # There is something wrong and hypocritical.
#
where the people # People who thought vaccines were good
criticizing people # criticized anti-vaxxers,
of the ignorance # saying the anti-vaxxers didn't realize
of "unintended" consequences # the damage they would cause
of vaccine fear # by scaring everyone away from proper treatment.
#
will play defense # Those people give excuses
for the unintended consequence # for the problem they actually created
of causing that fear # by MAKING the anti-vaxxers afraid in the first place
by the extremely aggressive pushing # since they tried too hard
of vaccine policies during covid. # to get everyone vaccinated to stop the virus.
Compare to: "Well, the car I was driving is wrecked, and it's all your fault! You should have known that I don't like being told what do to, so by telling me to slow down you forced me to accelerate into that barrier to prove that you aren't the boss of me. We could have avoided this whole mess if you'd simply babied my special needs and irrationalities like an adult."
This is also known as "Look what you made me do."
Some of you need to realize that writing some React pages doesn’t actually make you a polymath.